From the episode captions. Lightly corrected for names; may contain small transcription errors.
Thomas: Thanks for having me, man.
Ashton: Of course, dude. I I'm excited to have you on. Obviously, I feel like we've only known each other for like six months, I feel like, but I've already gotten a ton of value from you. especially like w in the land space and just kind of how you've handled the past couple of years overall. So I'm really excited to have you on and I think a lot of people are gonna get a lot of value from this conversation.
Thomas: Yeah, I hope so. Excited to be here.
Ashton: Yeah, so let's just jump right into it because, you know, people probably clicked on this video and they're like, all right, I want to hear what he has to say about this because obviously it's a huge thing that some people might face pretty often. Maybe not this much, maybe more, you never know. But what would you say to someone who is staring at let's say $130,000 worth of debt and maybe they don't have any hope?
Thomas: Yeah, well, I would say you've got two choices. And, you know, when I was in that position, you got to do some soul searching, first of all, right? Because obviously not a fun position to be in, you know, and having, you know, felt like I, you know, made it at, you know, a young age and I kind of, you know, thought I was like set to find myself not only back to square one, but negative. I was I was behind square one, you know. I was I was worse off than I was when I was at zero. You've got two choices. And, you know, that's really is this gonna be the thing that kind of makes me fold? Am I gonna throw in the towel? Am I calling this a wash? You know, where I'm just I I'm not gonna keep trying. I'm not gonna keep taking these risks because it didn't pan out this time. And whether that means, you know. Going and getting just like a W-2 job and being done with the whole entrepreneur thing. Or you can really flip the script and not to be all, you know, Mr. Motivation. but you know, you can turn a situation like that into the thing that motivates you. You can turn that into the reason why you win. And while I would never recommend somebody put themselves in a situation where their back is
Thomas: completely against the wall. I have to say, from experience, there's no better place to be as an entrepreneur. There just isn't. And it's even like almost maybe manufacture a situation like that if you have to, because when your back is against the wall and you have no choice but to succeed, it it really doesn't get any better than that as an entrepreneur, truthfully. So you have those two choices. You need to dig deep, put the ego aside, and And again, either fold or you know, rise from the ashes, so to speak.
Ashton: A hundred percent. I, you know, I've definitely I've had my own fair share of struggles with debt in the past, especially when I was working a hundred percent commission, like as a real estate agent in New York City, which was I wouldn't recommend it if you don't have savings lined up already. I definitely learned a lot of lessons along the way there, but it's it's scary. And like you said, it's there's there comes a time where you have to make a decision like, Am I just gonna give up and just like accept this for what it is?
Ashton: And again, just play it safe, or am I going to put my back up against the wall like you did and and really try to push forward and like make something happen no matter what? Did you have a moment though where you're like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to overcome this? Like I like what was the lowest moment and how did you kind of talk yourself through that?
Thomas: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm, I I wouldn't say it's I don't know if I can overcome this. It's more so like at what point does it become irresponsible? You know? so I'm engaged, you know, at the time of all this happening, I wasn't, but I was planning to, you know, my beautiful fiance and you know, I want to start a family and have children, everything. And, you know, on some level, so I just turned 29, still young, but you know, the decisions you make at, you know, 18, 20 definitely change in the in the later twenties. And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't times where I'm like, is this irresponsible? Right? Is it at some point not about you know believing in yourself, but being delusional? That said, there is a level of delusion. And without that, I think if you're hyper-realistic, which a lot of people are, I can be kind of that myself, only looking at the facts and and kind of that mindset. You look at 130,000 in credit card debt at we're not talking like, you know, 10% interest, or like, you know, 29% APR. Do you know what that like the payments on that look like? I was paying like three mortgages. You know what I mean? So on some level, it's like, well, I want to, you know, get married, want to start having children. Am I am I insane? So I wouldn't say it was, did I not believe in myself? It was more so, is this
Thomas: a responsible decision to make, especially to building a life with somebody else, you know?
Ashton: Yeah, and was there like a turning point though for you where you're like, All right, it's time to kind of drop the ego, like you mentioned, and actually put one foot in front of the other. And how am I gonna even go about doing that, let's say?
Thomas: Yeah, I mean, yes, because when you go from it's not like overnight everything blew up and I was a millionaire and then I woke up and everything was gone. In a sense, it kind of was only because of how long my denial lasted. And if if I could change anything going back, it would have been snapping out of it a little sooner. Where, you know, I was running a a business in the live events space and very capital intensive. We were, you know, taking on tons of debt to scale. But truthfully, I wasn't very involved. So I'd be traveling around and money was coming in and you know, one bad month turns into two. Then, you know, a hiccup here or there is like, okay, maybe just kind of a fluke situation, we'll bounce back. But then it's like, okay, we've got like a couple months of data here that's like painting a pretty clear picture that I was just ignoring because again, in my mind, I'm the guy who made it.
Thomas: I'm the guy who from my hometown is now on private jets and is doing that stuff. Like, and not that I like, you know, flexing it on social media or anything. I didn't really have a social media presence, but mentally, like that, that became, you know, who I was in my head. And to just let that go was was difficult for me. You know what I mean? Because I had worked so hard towards achieving that, that once I had it, I felt like I I couldn't let that go. And at some point, again, you know, the the The music stops and the lights turn on, so to speak. You can't ignore it any longer. Like you're not, hey, bro, you're not a millionaire anymore. You know, like, and and that's really it. And that moment for me, I I I don't I can't say that it was a specific day. It was probably more so a a a period of time, a transition of slowly like, you know, kind of realizing you're coming back, you know, snapping back to reality. You gotta do something about this. Like
Ashton: Yeah.
Thomas: This that business is dead. And you're not just gonna you're not gonna wake up and these credit cards have paid themselves off, right? You need a plan. And that's kind of when I kind of hit the drawing board, so to speak, and obviously found land, and that's what I'm doing now, and it's going very well. But it was a grind, you know what I mean? And documenting the whole thing on social media, you know, really talk about putting the ego to the side, you know what I mean?
Ashton: Mm.
Thomas: I had no idea about this business. So, like on, you know, day one, ten, day fifty, I was like, it's embarrassing for me. It's so cringe to watch those videos now, which I'll I'm always gonna leave them up because I they inspire people. And, you know, I I like the story aspect of it. I didn't do it consciously, but
Ashton: Okay.
Thomas: Yeah, you know, documenting everything kind of really doubled down on putting the ego to the side. And maybe that was some c subconscious as well. You know what mean? Where I'm I'm not gonna be stuck in this mentality of holding on. I've lost it all, I'm gonna rebuild and I'm gonna do it publicly. And that's you know kind of where this journey started.
Ashton: Yeah, and I it I think that's a super important mindset for entrepreneurs to have in general is to not like I I've read Ryan Holiday's books, Ego is the enemy, and just not holding on to that ego when it's so easy to because you've put out in public what you're doing and now you're kind of taking a step back for what you kind of showed the world, I guess you could say, like when you were doing your ticket business and whatnot. And maybe you weren't as public about it, but even just your inner circle knew about that, right?
Ashton: And so kind of having to take a step back from that and kind of showing that this wasn't successful, you got to kind of let your ego go and still kind of take that step forward into the next thing, or else you're gonna be stuck there, which, like you were saying earlier, we have a responsibility not to stay stuck in life. For you, did you, when you were at that moment though, when you were trying to decide like what should I do to overcome this? What venture should I start? You know.
Ashton: Were you leaning on any mentors at the time or were you asking anyone for advice regarding like how can I get out of this debt that I'm in? Because a lot of times when they have that level of debt, let's say, you know, they feel almost paralyzed by by the just the share amount and like what they need to overcome in order to beat that. Like so a lot of times it helps to like lean on someone for that. Did you have someone like that at all in your corner or what did that look like?
Thomas: Yeah, I will say not not necessarily in the mentor role. I definitely have, you know, friends, very successful business owners that I look up to. And so, you know, I I I did have that circle a bit. But truthfully, like when this happened, and like I said, I I kind of snapped back to reality, I kind of shut myself out. You know, like I I wasn't, you know, hopping on phone calls or hanging out with anybody. I kind of locked myself in. And I would say it's a little different. I wasn't starting from Zero in the sense of entrepreneurship. You know, I had started, I've been doing this for about a decade already. I would say my biggest mentor in this was almost like looking at the past version of me and trying to do everything kind of the opposite. Like it was more so about what should I avoid than what do I need to be doing. I knew what I needed to do. I knew what I needed to do. I knew, you know, I've been involved in the startup life for a long time.
Thomas: I know what it takes to, you know, bootstrap a company, get gritty, and you know, start from nothing, put in those hours. And, you know, I'm not lazy. I got lazy, but that's not how I started. And for me, it was again just like going back to the basics and more so learning from my own mistakes. so did I have a like a mentor, one person that I was leaning on throughout this? truthfully, I didn't.
Ashton: Yeah. And and I feel like that's where a lot of people are. Like sometimes you don't even know who to reach out to for help or support. So sometimes you do have to look inward and like try to find that strength in yourself and lean on your own experiences. And I that's what I love about entrepreneurship in general. And it's hard if you don't have that entrepreneurial mind to see this, but it's okay to have failures and to have things that aren't a success because that actually makes you better as an entrepreneur.
Ashton: Like that's how you learn. So like you said, like leaning on that past experience, that's only probably the only reason you're able to be successful at what you're doing now is because you've learned from those past experiences.
Thomas: I mean, you know, I don't know how countless people have said it, you know, the winners fail more than the losers. They just keep trying. You know, you could fail a hundred times and win once. That's all you need. You you don't need the first thing to work, the second thing, the tenth thing, the fiftieth thing. You just need to keep going. So as long as you can keep yourself in the game, you know, and that's like with the credit cards. I was living off credit cards, man. Like I I I wouldn't recommend it. You know what I mean? But I knew if I had to go like get a job or something, it was like
Ashton: Yeah.
Thomas: Not necessarily the end, but it was throwing in the towel and I just wasn't ready to do it.
Ashton: Yeah. And and you know, it's important not to give up on yourself. And that's exactly what you did. So I think I guess that kind of leads into like the next phase, which is, you know, you tried all these different businesses. You know, some worked, some didn't, but maybe the ones that worked didn't really last. What about land? Like how did you come across land flipping or land wholesaling to begin with?
Thomas: Yeah, it's a good question. I don't know exactly you know, like one specific piece of content. but yeah, I mean, you know, I was kind of hitting the drawing board on, you know, well, I gotta figure something out here. And whatever that something is, it can't take that much money to start. You know what I mean? The there's only so much room on the credit cards left, kind of thing. so you know, I'd been familiar with wholesale real estate. We were actually in a very, you know, well-known real estate community years ago. We never actually connected through it, but
Ashton: Yeah.
Ashton: Mm-hmm.
Thomas: I was involved in the real estate world, very familiar with real estate in general. I was familiar with wholesaling. I had years ago, I for a couple weeks started, you know, a wholesaling, like wholesaling houses venture with you know, some buddies, and very quickly realized this is not my thing. So I like I said, three weeks, we didn't even make it through the first month of subscriptions on the softwares. But I, you know, I again I can't say it was one specific piece of content. I can tell you it was one of the
Ashton: Yeah.
Thomas: you know, kind of Miami gurus that I that I saw, you know, talking about selling land to builders. And I thought that was interesting because I had already known wholesaling real estate would be the kind of business model that could work for me because it didn't take a ton of upfront capital. I wouldn't need like an office building or teams or or anything crazy like that. And the land aspect was a new angle of wholesale. And it made sense to me. So I I I started digging deeper on it and While ultimately I don't think flipping land to builders primarily is the best business model, that's where I started. And that that was kind of the beginning of all of this.
Ashton: Yeah, and I'm excited to get into that as well because I started out the same way with wholesaling real estate. I guess originally I started as an agent and then got out of the agent, started the business, started wholesaling houses, which is kind of how we were in the same group. That's where I learned that from originally. And then that was a pain and dealing with the emotions of sellers and all that, it was just way too much. and then I came across land and coming from selling luxury real estate in New York City.
Ashton: To then dealing with pieces of dirt, I was like, this is not sexy at all. Am I sure I want to do this? But little did I know how lucrative it could be. And so obviously you know that as well from your experience. What what was your first deal in land? Like let's let's talk about that and kind of like what the structure was of that, because some people who may watch this may have never even heard of land wholesaling or land flipping before.
Thomas: Yeah. So well let's start with wholesaling in general, the the general structure of wholesale, how it's widely understood. You're a middleman, so you know, person A owns a property. It's a home, piece of land, whatever it is. person C is a buyer for that. You're person B in the middle. So A, B, and C. You never buy the property. you never, you know, You don't take a loan to buy the property or anything like that. Essentially what you're doing is you get the contract signed for say 10,000, person A who owns it, but then you find person C who's willing to pay 20. You connect the dots, same contract gets signed, you make 10,000 bucks as like an assignment fee for being the middleman. That's wholesale real estate in you know two or three sentences. With land and the builder structure or method rather, that's that is the structure. it's primarily assignments. Is what that is called, that structure. It's called the signing a contract. And yeah, that's where I started. My first deal was again documented in the Daily Journey. I was posting these TikToks about starting my land business and a builder commented on one of my videos, Hey man, I'm a builder in Nashville. Can you find me some land? I was like, Absolutely. So I, you know, got his buy box and I pulled the list and I found a property. And on New Year's Eve.
Thomas: He signed the contract and I got paid out like you know, t two weeks later, give or take, you know, maybe not even. And I made five thousand bucks for a lot in Nashville. I think it was [...]. So you can look it up and that's that was my first deal.
Ashton: What a way to start the year too, at the very beginning.
Thomas: Yeah, yeah, I felt good. You know what I mean? Especially because I kind of said, like, I gotta see something here, you know, kinda in in a couple weeks. And I kinda mentally said, like, by the end of the year, I need some kind of proof that this is worth pursuing. and New Year's Eve, like probably right before this guy, you know, put his phone down and, you know, went to celebrate, signed the contract. So, you know, I went I I came into the New Year strong, feeling good. And it wasn't about the five thousand bucks that I made. It was about
Ashton: Mm-hmm.
Thomas: This is real. This is worth putting my time into. Like I'm vindicated in the sense that I saw the opportunity and there is something here. It's not just something people are making videos about. that's totally bogus. And I doubled down on that. And my next handful of deals were kind of builder deals.
Ashton: Yeah, and that's how I first got started in land too, which I know we've talked about, is just wholesaling the contract to a builder. What ended up happening though? Cause like you said, that's not the only strategy to go when it comes to land. What ended up happening down the road where you were like, I need to figure out another exit strategy or another way to handle these deals?
Thomas: Yeah, I would say what I what I realized is that It was seemingly going to be difficult to scale. I felt like I was hitting a bit of bit of a wall as far as how scalable this is. And don't get me wrong, there's guys that this is their primary business model and they're doing very well. And I'm not saying that they aren't. But for me, I felt like there's gotta be another angle to this. Like there's gotta be another strategy I can incorporate into this business to scale it quicker. Like there has to be more. There's no way this is it. And that was true because I started seeing people talking about, you know, double close deals and they were working with agents. And immediately I'm like, okay, well, I'm not quite ready to like buy the land and invest into it as an asset and then resell it. I just don't have the liquidity. But then I realized that's not what they were talking about. So they were not selling land to builders. They were using the same structure in theory, you know, very similar structure, to not actually buy the property, but rather than
Thomas: focus on these builder-heavy markets where new home builders are just screw, you know, scooping up lots left and right. They were kind of targeting more rural land in markets that there wasn't really builders doing new construction. And they were taking this land and selling it to retail buyers. That was like a massive unlock for me because it's like, wait, wait, wait. If I'm not limited to only builders, one, there's gonna be so many more markets. Two, I don't have to fit the land into a specific buy box, you know. quarter acre to half acre and this zip code must have water sewer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, no flood zone. It's like, hold on. Cause the builder might not buy that property, but a retail buyer might. You know what I mean? So I knew I was going to have more leads. I knew I was going to have, you know, a a way larger buyer pool. So I didn't sleep when I discovered that. And I needed, I know I needed to figure out how how to structure those deals to do that. because I knew it that was the next step in my business. And it was.
Ashton: what were you running into though when you were wholesaling the contracts just to builders? What were you running into that made you think to yourself, like this isn't scalable? I'm not gonna be able to grow this like I was hoping I could.
Thomas: So when you get a buy box from a builder, it's very specific. You know, these these guys have very specific criteria. And truthfully, many of them have the same criteria, you know, not all of them, but a lot of you you'll you'll notice if you hit a market for, you know, like builder activity and then you start reaching out to them and hey, what kind of lots are you looking for? Seven out of ten are looking for the same exact thing. So there's two sides of that. On one hand, it means your lists are going to be small. Because when you're pulling these lists for these landowners that have land that fits that criteria, the list is pretty specific. So there's not a ton of leads. Then on the other hand, you realize, okay, again, land flipping is probably, I'd say maybe one or two out of every hundred wholesalers is land focused. So you're already kind of you know, a minority in that sense, which is great. But now out of those one or two, you know, percent of people in land, what percent of them is only focused on builder deals?
Thomas: I'd say it's way more than half. So what you find is these builders are all kind of looking for the same stuff. And then all the competition is also trying to bring them the same lots. So not only are the lists smaller, but the competition is higher. So I kind of realized, you know, I'm identifying these builder markets around the country. You know, I can, I can, you know, kind of count them on not quite two hands, but it's not that much more than that either. You know what I mean? Like these are. kind of really specific areas and there's not tons of them. How am I going to keep getting new leads? Like what am I supposed to text the same people next week? I just text them. And believe it or not, that's kind of some of the strategy that gets taught for these methods. but whatever, I looked at that and I said, this is not not the way. And again, people are using that business model and making money. I thought it was extremely limiting and I I stand by that.
Ashton: I mean, I've had my same struggles with land. I saw some success right out the gate at the beginning. But then once I found, you know, all the markets that everyone else is hitting, it started slowing down significantly. And I realized it's because that's also where all the competition is and everyone's going after the same builders. And so I kind of saw like what you saw in the fact that there has to be another strategy here where there's not as much competition.
Ashton: Where I can have multiple exit strategies. And so, like you mentioned, you then went the double close route where you can hit different markets, you can put it on the market and get a retail buyer. and obviously there are gurus out there teaching that strategy as well. So you have your gurus teaching you to wholesale to builders, and then you have the gurus tell teaching you to just do double closes, large acreage. But what are you doing differently instead of just picking one or of the other?
Thomas: Yeah, that's probably like my hottest land flipping take, truthfully, is that out of all the people teaching land flipping, they they seemingly like separate themselves into one of two camps, like builder deals, you know, that's a lot of the Miami guys, you know, flexing the Lambos and stuff, sell land to builders. So he just call the builder. versus, you know, rural, no, like larger acreage, you know, subdivide deals and You know, working with agents and that kind of stuff. Having started with the builder thing and then transitioning into well, not transitioning into, kind of more adding that method into my business, that exit strategy. I I was confused why people were picking one or the other. Because at the end of the day, we're doing the same outreach. We're underwriting a deal as it needs to be underwritten, which Okay, if I need to underwrite for a builder exit or, you know, an MLS exit, I'm still underwriting the deal. We're reaching out to these landowners in the same exact manner. Why pick one or the other? And that makes no sense to me. And I think people make a mistake, maybe, especially early on, marrying one strategy or the other. I don't see why you should do that. Now don't get me wrong, you get started and you say, hey, I, you know, maybe you like the builder thing and you're like,
Thomas: Just like working with builders. It's working for me. I'm gonna double down on this. Knock yourself out. But I think it's it's limiting. And I won't maybe use the word like a disservice, but to get into this business with only one side of that, one exit strategy. It's like having a tool belt with one tool in it. All you got is a hammer. You know what I mean? But the hammer doesn't get every job done. You know what I mean? So for me, I want to be the most like well-versed land flipper. I want to have strategy for whatever deal comes my way, you know, and that evolves over time. Of course, like eventually you get into actually acquiring deals with capital, you know, and subdivides and development and all that stuff. And that's part of why I love land, because there's so much opportunity beyond these, you know, entry level strategies. But yeah, there there seemingly is no reason to do one or the other from my perspective. I I I I can't figure out why if someone knows both, they would not want to incorporate both.
Ashton: Yeah. And I actually transition transitioned to the double close only for a little while after I was had that, you know, complete fall off from the whole assigning the builders. And then I transitioned to I'm just gonna do double close. I'm only gonna focus on that. And then you and I ended up kind of building a relationship earlier this year. And you actually are one of the reasons that I changed my mindset around that and how I need to listen.
Ashton: You're gonna get a ton of deals across your desk, a ton of sellers come across your desk, and you need to have the multiple strategies so that you can just decide per deal what the best exit is gonna be for that instead of just sitting in one section and like throwing all those other sellers away that may have been good for a different strategy. And so you've been extremely helpful for me as I'm growing my pipeline. So I'm I'm thankful for you for that.
Thomas: Well, I I appreciate that and I and I'm glad. It's funny though, because I think that's kind of what happens where if you're coming from the builder thing, you learn that, hey, I can list things on market and you just get tunnel visioned on it. That's what I did. I started like I was trying to fit everything into that box, which is also a mistake. Don't get me wrong, it's a great exit strategy. It opens up so many doors, but there were deals that, you know, truthfully didn't really make sense for the MLS stuff where with, you know, double closing costs and You know, that whole structure, the deal was a little tight. And in hindsight, I had a shot at assigning that to somebody and just making a couple grand. And I passed up on those deals. So, you know, there's two sides of it. but it's funny you say that because I did the exact same thing. I got totally tunnel visioned on the exit strategy. I got obsessed with it, and it's all I wanted to do because I was so, you know, gung-ho. That's also a mistake, in my opinion.
Ashton: Yeah, and it's it's easy to do though. It's easy to kind of get sucked into one strategy and and only focus on that. But ultimately, if you can balance all of them, that's when you're gonna have the most opportunity as well. So it's it's a hard balance at times. But for you, I guess, okay, you kind of merged both strategies into one where you're kind of just analyzing it deal by deal to see what makes sense. How has your business, your land flipping business changed since you've done that?
Thomas: Since I've kind of incorporated both strategies. Truthfully, not that much, like as far as the systems and processes. And that's kind of my whole point is that people are like, yeah, well, you know, I don't know about the the MLS stuff or the role. I'm kind of, you know, I'm running my business with the the builder method. That again doesn't make much sense to me because once I started using both of these exit strategies, it doesn't change my business that much. It changes it in the sense that I'm making more money. And but aside from that, again, you know, we're running SMS outreach. So that is our primary outreach channel. That's how we reach landowners, is we text them. And that initial text is the same, whether they're in a market where builders are active or they're in the middle of nowhere on with 50 acres. The text is the same. Hi, so and so. Are you open to an offer on your land? It doesn't change. When we look at the property, very quickly we can, you know, reason.
Thomas: Is this going to be something maybe we sell to a builder or no? And then we underwrite accordingly and make the offer accordingly. But it doesn't change the business, at least on like the acquisition side. And that's again, like my biggest thing and why I feel like it's like my my hot take and land flipping. Cause I don't know, nobody's really talking about it. You know what I mean? Everyone's just on one side or the other. And it literally makes no sense to me. So
Ashton: So how long exactly have you been doing both strategies?
Thomas: Well, I started the day one was like December first, so
Ashton: Of twenty twenty five? And how much revenue have you made since then?
Thomas: Correct. Yeah. I think it was I think we're pushing I probably close to 150 closed, but we've got the pipeline is looking pretty good. I keep getting deals pushed back, like from September to was gonna be early October. Now we're late October. So, you know, I I don't count it before it hits the bank. You know, if anyone wants to see, they can follow me on, you know, Instagram. I document all the deals there. But right now we're probably around the 150 mark and
Ashton: Yeah.
Thomas: You know, I set a goal that I wanted to make three hundred and sixty five K in three hundred sixty five days. We'll see. But what I can say is we're not you know, we're we're we're in the game. You know what I mean? We've we've got a shot. So
Ashton: Yeah. And once you start building that pipeline, it can start to trickle pretty quickly too over time, which is what's exciting. Like, especially once you start getting these, let's say the double closed deals from the market. If you can start building a a large pipeline of deals that are on the market, with before you know it, you could have one, two or three get an offer accepted within a short amount of time. And next thing you know, like you're you're looking pretty good.
Thomas: Well, and that's why I like having these two strategies because on one hand, the assignments, like the builder deals or whatever, those are great for cash flow. You know, if I can make three grand assigning a deal to a builder and he closes in fourteen days, twenty one days, and that's a couple of bucks coming in the door. Like, I I love those deals. They're easy to do, you get paid quick. I'll stack as many of those as I can. Like I'm not and that's another thing. People who talk about the MLS stuff or Aurora Land, they're like, don't do little deals with builders making a couple thousand bucks like I don't know about you. I'm not too good to make two, three grand on a deal. You know what mean? So I look at it like those assignments are great for cash flow where they keep the lights on. You know what I mean? The software costs paid, and we always have something coming in. because like you said, the on-market deals, the double closes, you know, listing stuff with agents, those deals don't always happen so quickly. And a lot of times you're getting paid for work you did months ago with those. And it is more of a pipeline. It is more of, hey, you know.
Ashton: Money is money.
Thomas: Maybe we didn't close anything in the last couple of weeks, but you know, we've got a couple of closings lined up next month. And maybe we've got, you know, ten listings on the market where in theory, if they all closed, it would be great. And if only half of them closed, we're gonna be in pretty good shape. So it is more of a like a a pipeline, so to speak.
Ashton: Yeah, you just gotta keep building that pipeline as large as you can get it and things eventually will start falling in your favor. for you, I I I'd be interested to know in case anyone hasn't seen your channel, of course I've seen it and whatnot, but what is the largest assignment fee you got from assigning a deal to a builder versus the fee you got from doing a double close and selling something on the market?
Thomas: Mm-hmm. so the biggest builder deal assignment wise, which the number is slightly skewered because I had a pretty large builder deal that could have been an assignment. I chose to double close it just to keep the spreads private. So I I guess if we're talking strictly assignment, like being very literal, 7,500 bucks, you know, which again, I'm not nose in the air to that. That's good money, you know what I mean? People can close.
Ashton: change some people's lives.
Thomas: Can close one of those a month, you quit your job. now the deal that could have very well been an assignment to a builder, but I chose to double close it to conceal the profit. a little over eighteen grand. And then for on market deals, the largest one so far, nothing too crazy, believe it or not. it's in the mid thirties. I either want to say thirty two or thirty six, something like that. And I'm not gonna jinx it because That w you know, say it on the podcast. Start bragging on the podcast, the deal falls through. We got one this month that'll beat that record by a long shot. So
Ashton: Awesome. Congrats, dude. When is that one expected to close? Yeah, yeah. Trust me, I get it. I get it. My wife is like, she asks me the same questions about deals sometimes. I'm like, I don't want to get you too excited yet. But when is that one expected?
Thomas: Don't congratulate me yet, man. Please don't do I don't even want to talk about it. well, like I said, the closing keeps getting pushed back. So I'm hoping, you know, fingers crossed we get it done before the end of the month. It should be today's Wednesday. I Friday's looking thin, so I'm I'm kind of accounting for early next week. So probably by the time this is live, the people will know if it panned out or not.
Ashton: Yeah.
Ashton: What would you say, I'm curious, what would you say to people who say what you are doing? Cause I've heard it before, primarily from people online, or like obviously we get text messages from sellers sometimes that aren't always the most pleasant. But what would you say to people who would say like, land flipping or land wholesaling is a scam?
Thomas: For it to be a scam there has to be a victim. So who's first of all, who's the victim? I imagine they're saying the victim is the person who's not getting full market value for their land. So that I would say is don't get me wrong, there isn't a non-like unethical way to do this. That's with anything. You could turn any business into you know, you could have you know either poor or no transparency, you can lie to people, you can do that in anything. So don't get me wrong, there's people that operate Any kind of business with you know like poor you know bad morals, truthfully. that said, people mistake that as the business, that for your business to work, people have to be getting you know famous or swindled. That's not the case. And if you're very transparent in what the your company offers as a you know a land business who makes cash offers on land, which we are, people understand. People understand the trade off. And that trade off is full market value or convenience. People seem to not understand that people choose convenience more than you would think. And those same people with that critique are, I'm sure, you know, guilty of it themselves. You know, you want a new car, do you list yours on Facebook Marketplace and have 10 people stop by your house and test drive it so you can get full market value, or do you trade it into the dealer? I trade it into the dealer.
Thomas: But the dealer's not a scam. Okay, but you know you're giving it to the dealer for a lower price than it's worth, right? Well, okay. It's like, well, obviously the dealer's not paying you what he can sell it for. He's paying you half that at best, you know, or depending on the car. So if your car is worth 10,000 on Facebook Marketplace and you're at the dealer, you've already picked out the new one. He goes, Okay, here's what I can do. I could give you five grand today for that car, and we'll just apply it to the purchase price, and yeah, it's a done deal. You don't have to do anything, you don't have to, you know. You don't have to you know, fix that electrical problem. Or yeah, I know the tires are pretty much bald and you need brakes. Don't worry about it. I'll give you five grand today. And you go, well, okay, that's easy. You know what I mean? That's what we're offering. We're offering convenience, you know, same thing with like phones or old technology. You know, people trade it in because you don't want to have to sell it. and I promise you, if you sold it on your own, you'd almost always get more for it. And that's just the reality of.
Thomas: The economy, like people are willing to trade, you know, money for convenience in in every business. And that's what we're doing. We're giving people a very convenient option where they don't have have to deal with an agent to list it on market and maybe pay for drone photography or soil test and then talk to their agent, you know, twice a week when offers come in and they get low balled and they're gonna counter and then the buyer fell through and then this, that, and the third. People are very happy to say, okay, Ashton, sure, send me the contract, I'll sign it. And They forget about it until their money shows up. And maybe you offer them 80 and they could have gotten 105. I think people are under the assumption that the people we buy land from don't know that. That's just not true. People are aware that they can get more and they choose to take the easy option. So that's that's my answer to that.
Ashton: Yeah, and I love the car analogy. I didn't think about it like that. So hopefully that resonates with some people as well. For you, let's go a different direction for a minute. AI is one of my favorite topics to talk about, especially with business and just the way it's exploding. And, you know, some people are very, I want to say ignorant. I don't know if ignorant's the right word, but they are very standoffish sometimes about AI and starting to use it and and trying to like
Thomas: Yeah.
Ashton: figure out like if it's worth it for them to even like invest their time in or not. And, you know, from my perspective, when it comes to to AI and whether or not you're going to use it and apply it to your business, you can either get moved and run over by a bulldozer or you can be the one driving it. It's kind of like a good way to think about it. And I feel like the people who are actually utilizing AI in their business are the ones driving the bulldozer and, you know, making a change. So
Thomas: Yeah.
Ashton: For you, I would love to hear how you're using AI in your day to day business and even maybe in your personal life and kind of where it has made the most impact.
Thomas: Well, definitely in the business, aside from my personal life. and just to back up, anyone who's asking themselves, like, does it make sense for me to use AI? I don't care who you are or what industry you're in, the answer is yes, no matter what. And if you and if you don't think that's true, then you just don't understand AI. Nobody who understands the power of AI says, yeah, no, I know everything it could do. Not interested. If you think that, you don't understand. And that is a massive risk to take to not understand AI, truthfully. So so risky because one, my business is so reliant on AI. You know what I mean? And I don't know why people would think that's a bad thing. It ain't going anywhere. It's only getting better and more powerful. So one, to understand it and utilize it. And two, yeah, I mean, again, there's just no s There's no situation I could even think of where someone's business would not benefit to AI, even in smaller ways. Of course, some businesses more so than others. I'm using AI my business in every way I can. It would almost be easier to tell you what's not done with AI than what is done with AI. and it's changing almost every other week, right? Just due to like the nature of the technology and how fast it's like it it's almost scary.
Ashton: Yeah.
Thomas: And I think that's what holds a lot of people back, is it is a little scary. And don't get me wrong, I'm one of these people who's very like, you know, no microplastics, full cotton stuff, what's in my water, organic this, organic that. And I think a lot of people are like just scared by AI and they don't like the idea of it. I understand that. But it's like you said, like the bulldozer is a a great analogy. It's it ain't going anywhere. Like you need to adapt. And to not understand and leverage AI in 2026, you are doing your business such a disservice. Like it it's it's dangerous for you, truthfully. Because I'm using AI and I talked to a good friend of mine the other day, actually, very, very successful entrepreneur, runs a probably near, you know, eight figure business a year, revenue wise. And I showed him what a Grok bot was, and this guy lost his mind.
Ashton: Yeah.
Thomas: He couldn't believe He's calling me every day, you know, like, dude, you got to see this bot I just set up sending me screenshots and this and that. His mind is blown and he can't stop thinking of new use cases. He has a large team, you know, dozens of employees. And whether you're just a solo entrepreneur, just you know, a one-man band, so to speak, or you have like an operation going, you need to be using this technology seriously. and if you're not, you're not late yet. But you're very close to being late. And so you you need you need to get into the swing of things and you gotta go watch a couple of YouTube videos.
Ashton: Yeah, Grogbot has been an absolute game changer for me. The amount of bots that I have set up, I feel like I have a whole army at this point. But the fact that you can basically get rid of every computer task that you do on a day-to-day basis now, just about with Grogbot, and it will handle it for you. And you don't have to prompt it to do so once you train it. It just does it proactively for you is just amazing. I I can't even imagine where we're gonna be.
Ashton: a year from now, l and or five years from now with how fast AI is progressing. And yeah, could it be scary sometimes, of course. But if you learn to use it the right way, the same way like the analogy like with a hammer, right? You can either use a hammer to beat somebody with it or you can use it for good and build a house that people can live in. Right. So I think it all comes down to how you use it. Same thing with social media. I could go off on tangents about this stuff, but it truly is
Thomas: Hm yeah. Yeah.
Ashton: So powerful and is truly changed how I work on a day-to-day, day-to-day business. And I would not be able to accomplish what I have been able to accomplish lately without it. so it's it's crazy. What's like the the number one use case for you though? Or like what has been the the best thing you've used it for so far in the business?
Thomas: It's really, really hard to say. I like I said, it's at the point. It would really be easier to tell you what part of my business does not use AI, which is comping properties. It's not there yet. It probably will be. It probably will be.
Ashton: Yeah. That's all that's I feel like that's the biggest the biggest bottleneck right now is at least for me when I'm responding to sellers is still having to manually go in and comp them each one by one. And obviously the the tools that we have available to us to actually comp is extremely helpful. But if I could create a bot that would actually go in and comp for me in a way that
Ashton: Doesn't just pull numbers, but actually is strategic about the comps and like what makes sense, that would be a game changer.
Thomas: You know what I say, you know, AI is great at, you know, formulas and that kind of thinking. It's very black or white, yes or no, ones and zeros. land is interesting in the sense of how nuanced it is. And I always say, you know, comping is much more of an art than a science. It's it really is an art form. Because a lot of times if like, you know, I'm showing somebody like why'd you do that? Why'd you discount it because of that? It's like I can't give you the formula of why I just discounted this piece of property 10,000 because it's not a formula, but It's a gut feeling having looked at you know thousands and thousands of properties. And that said, it will be able to do it soon. It's not there yet, but it, I mean, obviously it will be. You know what mean? So, you know, there's still things that you know require a human touch. And even it's you know, a lot of people like, well, how can I just fire people and have AI take their place? I don't necessarily look at it that way. Don't get me wrong, you can.
Thomas: I would say, you know, a five-person team leveraging AI is as productive or more productive than a 20-person human team. But I don't look at it in the sense of, you know, how can we have less people? It's how can we make the people we have 10 times more productive. And that's how I think about it. And it's truthfully part of the reason I wake up so fired up every single day is because I'm building this business in what I feel is a bit of an outdated space. The competition is outdated. And they're clinging to old models. And I'm sitting here. with you know my claw and my Grok bots and you know I got this crazy wa monitor that's you know wraps around my head and I've got a million windows pulled up and bots firing off on all cylinders doing you know a million different tasks and it's just like people are getting left behind and they don't know it yet. And leveraging AI in your business like this is going to create the the next wave of millionaire entrepreneurs. I I it's just a fact.
Ashton: Yeah.
Ashton: Yeah, it's so exciting. I that's what excites me every day. I'm like, what are my bots going to accomplish today? And how can I orchestrate them to do it the right way? for you, I know we're kind of coming to the end here. And we kind of started with all of this, you know, you you had a big mountain in front of you when it came to the debt and working that off. If you lost it all again tomorrow and had to start again from ground zero, what would you do first?
Thomas: Yep. Truthfully, it wouldn't look any different from the journey that I've been documenting. If I, if you took everything away from me today and I started from zero, I would be starting a land business. I would. I think it's the best opportunity right now as far as things you can do with, you know, relatively low capital investment that is not and if people use the term oversaturated, oversaturation doesn't scare me because you have to realize the more saturated something is, the easier it is to stand out. But it's just a a very slept-on business model right now. There's so much potential. If I had to start from zero, I would do exactly what I've done from documenting my journey from day one. I'd be starting my land business small. I'd close some deals. I'd I would have probably made some hires a little sooner into the business and you know doubled down a little quicker. I'd be using and learning AI as much as I could. but that said, I'd also not
Thomas: Be too crazy about consuming too much content. I'd really be focused on action. You know what I mean? And imperfect action. So again, to sum it up, you know, if I was starting from zero back against the wall, that's what I would do. You know, I would do pretty much what I've done. You know, I'd go all in on one thing. I wouldn't get shiny object syndrome and try a business model for 30 days and pivot. And look, land flipping is not the only business model that works. All gurus that are showing these business models, the truth is they all work. Some of them are obviously better than others, but you know, even in the what I think is the craziest business model to teach people like, you know, day trading, I think it's a terrible business model to start, especially if you're in a bad spot. But that said, do people make money day trading? Obviously. So all these business models work. And truthfully, if you committed enough time to any one of them, you would make it work. so if you're in that position, you know, starting out.
Thomas: Pick something that you believe in enough, know that there will be doubts, but you you need to know going into it that you're gonna face those doubts and those periods of like, is this really the right thing I should be doing? And and in that moment, to pivot to something else is probably the biggest mistake you can make. You need to suffer it out. I said it somewhere else, and I'll say it again. I really live by this. People really overestimate what's possible in 30 days and they underestimate what's possible in a year. People think, you know, I if I buy this course, I could have a Lambeau in my driveway in, you know, a month. Probably not. Is it impossible? Like, I guess not, but you know, unlikely. People really underestimate what's possible in a year. I'm not even a year into this journey. I'm 10 months in and my life is, you know, completely, completely turned around. And I'm nowhere near satisfied with where I'm at. Like I'm hungry for more. And but I wake up with a like a passion and a purpose to build this company.
Thomas: You know, with employees now, you know, people rely on this business to succeed. with the social media, like people are getting inspired by the content. And I wake up fired up and you need purpose in what you're doing. And if what you're doing is not you know, if you're not waking up excited, then there's a good chance you're lacking that purpose. So you need to find what that is. You need to double down, you need to know it's gonna be hard and you need to stick with it.
Ashton: Yeah. And, you know, I was gonna ask you what wisdom would you share with someone from this season of life that you've kind of been going through that they could kind of borrow and apply to their life? But I feel like you basically just answered that question.
Thomas: Yeah, I think my answer would probably be pretty much the same. So
Ashton: Yeah. What so what's next? What's next for the land business? What's your next your next goal? What are you like working towards right now? Besides the obviously we know the three hundred and sixty-five K, the goal there. is there something beyond that or is that kind of like you the first step along something bigger?
Thomas: Yeah, working on that. Yeah, well, I've been even saying lately in some content, you know, like documenting building a seven figure land business. And when I say seven figure, I mean, you know, within a year. you know, a business that is doing seven figures a year consistently. And I'm kind of already mentally chasing that goal. You know what I mean? I set 365 by, you know, New Year's Eve and we'll see if we hit it. Maybe I don't. I don't know. And truthfully, I don't care because I know where this business is going and I'm just so fired up. you know, I'm working with, you know, a small group of people doing some one on one stuff. just doing some one on one like coaching and stuff. And that's, you know, it's something I didn't want to do initially. but it's been talking about purpose, you know, it's it's given me a lot of joy, like not to sound corny like that, but truthfully, like it is fulfilling to teach somebody and to like
Thomas: save them the hard lessons I've learned and watch people that are, you know, in even similar positions that I was in, you know, kind of start this journey and land and and seeing it work for them. so there's that. And I'm working on something else that I'm not going to talk about too too much, but maybe fit for more of a wider audience. something that I'm working on that I'm really excited to, you know, make public. But yeah, that's you know, it's hard to say what's next for me because I don't, I'm not thinking know, years and years ahead. I'm just focusing, you one foot in front of the other. But I can tell you we're nowhere near where we wanna be and we're nowhere near finished with the work. So
Ashton: Yeah, I love that. I well, I'm excited to continue following along on your journey. And like I said, like you've been so helpful for me and just, you know, the short amount of time that we've known each other. So I really appreciate you. I appreciate you coming on and obviously being vulnerable. And I know it's not easy to talk, you know, on social media and out in public around some of the challenges you face because sometimes you want to really just like keep that inside. You don't want people to see that side of you.
Ashton: So when someone is that vulnerable, it really opens up the opportunity to really help others that might be going through the same thing. So I I really appreciate that in you. And I've learned a lot from you already. And I'm like I said, I'm excited to continue to. Yeah, of course.
Thomas: Well well and I appreciate you having me. Yeah, I appreciate you having me and giving me the opportunity to do it. I hope it inspires people. I really enjoyed it. I hope you have me on again in the future. I'd love to run it back and do it again.
Ashton: yeah, I definitely will. I would love to see like maybe this time next year we'll do another one and you're gonna be like, Bro, I'm I'm chasing I'm chasing eight figures now.
Thomas: The yearly update. I hope so. I hope so. We'll run it back again. I'd love to.
Ashton: Yeah. Well, where can people find you if they want to follow your journey? If they want to keep up to date with what you got going on or what you're coming out with.
Thomas: Yeah, Thomas buys land everywhere. No spaces, no dashes. Thomas buys land. You find me anywhere.
Ashton: Perfect. All right, man. Well, I really appreciate you. Thank you for hopping on. and I'm excited for the next time we get to do one of these.
Thomas: Likewise, thanks, brothers. Talk soon.